Integrating HTML5 :)

[ktf]

I've integrated some HTML 5 tags in my website already: www.icer.nl

I've used the tags <article> and <nav>, because I want to be one of the first to use this feature when it gets integrated in search engine crawlers At the moment it is some kind of quick and dirty solution, because the markup is still much like XHTML (with <br /> and things like that)

So, what about you? Would you sacrifice compatility (some browsers don't know how to handle the elements) to adopt HTML5?

[Le Sage]

There as an interesting article in A List Apart called A Preview of HTML 5 (December 04, 2007 - by Lachlan Hunt) describing how web developers can already use HTML5.
I think that the default reaction of most browsers facing an unknown element (as for example <header>, <nav>, <article>, <section>, ...) is to ignore it, but display its content. Though, most browsers probably (this needs checking) still apply style on them (with a nicely written CSS). So if you wanna add sematic value to your web page, using <span> or using any other element I've mentioned on top should be without danger.

[ktf]

Well, actualy i've tried to replace a div with a nav element, but Firefox doesn't seem to like it, it ignores the style too. So I've placed a div element in a nav element to get the same look.

Anyway, thanks for the link.

[Le Sage]

Well, padding works for me, as background-color or other text-style changing. Width doesn't seem to be applied, but if is fixed if you apply a

Code: Select all

myNewHtml5Element {
  display: block;
}

in it (I guess elements are in-line by default, correct me if I'm wrong).
So once again I'm pretty sure you can do anything you want. Can you specify what you exactly can't do?
[ADD] by the way, it works for Firefox 3 (probably Firefox 2 too), Opera 9.5 (probably earlier versions too), but not IE7 (forcing the stylesheet to be applied which could easily be fixed with wise JavaScript, so this solution can according to me be deployed).

[ktf]

I tried in FF 2 to make nav a div-like with display: block; Well, I guess i did something wrong then I'll try again as soon as I make my whole site html5-"compatible"

[OmegaJunior]

Well, padding works for me, as background-color or other text-style changing. Width doesn't seem to be applied, but if is fixed if you apply a

Code: Select all

myNewHtml5Element {
  display: block;
}

in it (I guess elements are in-line by default, correct me if I'm wrong).
So once again I'm pretty sure you can do anything you want. Can you specify what you exactly can't do?
[ADD] by the way, it works for Firefox 3 (probably Firefox 2 too), Opera 9.5 (probably earlier versions too), but not IE7 (forcing the stylesheet to be applied which could easily be fixed with wise JavaScript, so this solution can according to me be deployed).

That's what I found too. I wrote an article about that over on myopera.com. I came to the conclusion that this behaviour by MSIE must be an executive decision: the browser itself is capable of handling unknown elements in XML and applying the provided CSS correctly; as such there is no technical reason for the browser to be unable to handle unknown HTML elements.

[Le Sage]

A little bit of JavaScript can always fix that (very easy to force a stylesheet to be applied with a JavaScript engine such as jQuery ; there might even be some scripts that already could parse CSS & apply it), so I guess that's not really a bug problem.
An example of real-life HTML 5 by Simon Pieters (zcorpan) : W3C home in HTML 5. Of course, IE7 doesn't like it, but IE8 might (haven't tested).
almost validates (might have to replace en-uk by en-GB).

[zcorpan]

To make the new elements stylable in IE, you just do

Code: Select all

<script>document.createElement('nav');</script>

before you use any of the new elements (e.g. in HEAD), and then the behavior of the parser magically changes. (credit)

[zcorpan]

An example of real-life HTML 5 by Simon Pieters (zcorpan) : W3C home in HTML 5.

Well it's an experiment so I'm not sure how much of a "real-life" example it is...

almost validates (might have to replace en-uk by en-GB).

Done. (Note that the actual w3.org home page still has this error.)

[OmegaJunior]

A little bit of JavaScript can always fix that (very easy to force a stylesheet to be applied with a JavaScript engine such as jQuery ; there might even be some scripts that already could parse CSS & apply it), so I guess that's not really a bug problem.

To make the new elements stylable in IE, you just do

Code: Select all

<script>document.createElement('nav');</script>

before you use any of the new elements (e.g. in HEAD), and then the behavior of the parser magically changes. (credit)

Unfortunately that leaves out all those whose company decided Javascript in Internet Explorer a security risk and thus off limits. Any way to force this browser into behaving nicely without javascript?

[Le Sage]

and then the behavior of the parser magically changes

interesting trick

(Note that the actual w3.org home page still has this error.)

Well I guess you didn't change the code from en-GC to en-uk yourself (just for the sake of not validating)!

Unfortunately that leaves out all those whose company decided Javascript in Internet Explorer a security risk and thus off limits. Any way to force this browser into behaving nicely without javascript?

Are there any companies that both force users to use IE & block JavaScript ? Well, shouldn't be very fun to work at these companies, most of the web is broken for them.
No trick that I can think of.
By the way, is there any place I could submit a request for a user prefered language detection in JavaScript (DOM)? Maybe on this forum? Maybe on a W3C mail list? Maybe (probably) this issue has already been discussed?

[zcorpan]

By the way, is there any place I could submit a request for a user prefered language detection in JavaScript (DOM)? Maybe on this forum? Maybe on a W3C mail list?

whatwg@whatwg.org works.

Maybe (probably) this issue has already been discussed?

I can't remember it being discussed, but perhaps it was before I joined the WHATWG. The spec has this section:
http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/cu ... calization

[Le Sage]

Thanks, I'll write a thread on this forum & forward it to the mail you gave soon... hum, somewhat soon...

[OmegaJunior]

To make the new elements stylable in IE, you just do

Code: Select all

<script>document.createElement('nav');</script>

before you use any of the new elements (e.g. in HEAD), and then the behavior of the parser magically changes. (credit)

Tried that and seems to work in MSIE6, but not in Firefox2, nor MSIE8. Doesn't force MSIE6 to recognise { display: table-cell;} though

[Le Sage]

Does Firefox 2 display the w3c test page from Simon correctly ? (sorry, I don't have any FF 2 anymore )