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Hmm.. The MWI seems supported by several of the mobile device manufacturers I know of as well of some other well known and respected companies (like Opera software for example). "rubbish" you say? Perhaps. I respect your having that opinion on this but humbly disagree (obviouslyCerbera wrote:Sorry, but the W3C's mobile best practise stuff is rubbish.
I'm not arguing against browsers needing support for text/html.Cerbera wrote: Mobile phones don't need XHTML. Also, any browser has to have text/html support for users to access any significant amount of web content. A browser without that support could only access a tiny fraction of the documents published on the web, and therefore be poor value for money (and probably quite useless) to end users.
I don't argue against any of that since it seems to be a reasonable conclusion.Cerbera wrote: My understanding of <noscript> is that its purpose is more effectively handled using unobtrusive scripting techniques. Zcorpan has given examples of these in previous proposals about this, IIRC. But I'm no scripting expert, so maybe there are cases which unobtrusive scripting cannot handle but <noscript> can?
Certainly. You could for example browse through the news from the MWI or their sponsors.Cerbera wrote:Are the "various accounts" you mention available online anywhere?
OK. I respect you having that opinion. I just don't agree since I see them actually being used. But whatever. This will not likely change since both are opinionsCerbera wrote:[...] So I think justifying <noscript> in terms of W3C's Mobile Best Practise is a bit weak. There could be other justifications, of course.
Look again.Cerbera wrote:I looked through the news to the 4th page and some Press Releases but couldn't find those stories. Could you provide direct links to them, please?
Fair enoughCerbera wrote:Good point about how unobtrusive scripting solves the <noscript> cases more elegantly in text/html as well as XML formats. This means it isn't necessary for accessibility, making that justification a bit weak as well. UAs still need to support <noscript> in text/html because it too common too ignore. I didn't think it was common in XML formats, but perhaps it is after all.
Of course I agree with the last statement - Anyone with even a basic understanding of XML does I thinkCerbera wrote:As I understand it, XML parsers are intended to be as straightforward as possible and require no "knowledge" of the markup they are working with. In contrast, text/html parsers are inevitably complex and already need "knowledge" of HTML to process it. A difference between the two serialisations could be appropriate to maintain the integrity and simplicity of XML?
Cerbera wrote:My understanding of <noscript> is that its purpose is more effectively handled using unobtrusive scripting techniques. Zcorpan has given examples of these in previous proposals about this, IIRC. But I'm no scripting expert, so maybe there are cases which unobtrusive scripting cannot handle but <noscript> can?
Scripts are executed when the script elements are inserted into the document, i.e. as soon as possible. For you use-case your can use:mogmios wrote:One reason I use the noscript tag is to switch stylesheets for users without scripting. This is handy if you want to have elements look a certain way for users with scripting that wouldn't work for users without scripting. Every scripting method I've tried to do the same thing with results in a visual flicker, in some browsers, as the styles are changed whereas noscript results in a flicker-free experience. Unless there is going to be some way to force scripting to run before the page is displayed to the user, or tell the browser to use or not use different stylesheets based on the availability of scripting, I think noscript is useful.
<head>
<script> document.documentElement.className += " hasjs"; </script>
<style>
.foo { /* styles for "no script" */ }
.hasjs .foo { /* styles that override the above when scripting is available */ }
</style>
...
Jarvklo wrote:But if that conclusion is an important enough reason to exclude noscript from one serialization, it's probably as important a reason to exlude it from *all* serializations in order to acheive the "unified language" that will replace both HTML and XHTML. Again, my humble opinion of course
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