hmm. Hello whatwg forums.

[Xdega]

Hi.
My name is Liam.
Just signed up, pleased to hopefully share my ideas in the WHATWG effort. One thing I would really like to state right off the bat though. These default phpbb forums are really un-flattering and don't offer much in the way of aesthetic pleasure.

Just a question, are there any plans to make they look a little nicer? I would be more than happy to assist in any way I can. Albeit I am no expert. A mere Comp Sci major (starting this fall), But I do have an interest in graphic arts to a certain degree.

Something inspiring though is documents like: http://developers.whatwg.org/
They way it shows really nice layout, and rich features. It's clean and most importantly it feels custom and un-canned. If you catch my drift

Seems miles apart in terms of layout etc. Maybe show off some of the rich new HTML features?

Anyways, glad to be here.

[Xdega]

Also, would be nice to enable "Edit own posts". I often make many typos I need to correct when I am in a hurry to get an idea posted. Just a suggestion, however if there is a reasoning for it, so be it.

[zcorpan]

Welcome! Hixie is going to give me full access to the forum software soonish, at which point we can figure something out (maybe the first course of action will be to switch forum software?). I'm more than happy to let people improve the forums.

The 'edit posts' feature, useful as it is, has unfortunately been abused by spammers so was disabled.

[JAB Creations]

It would be necessary to limit the amount of time to edit one's own posts to prevent spammers from posting and then editing after moderator review.

[freeTinker]

New forum and board etc. great idea!

What about forming a specification and making a competition out of it?

[Xdega]

I don't think changing forum software would be neccsary. The beauty of phpbb is that it is open source. It would definitely be a good idea to make sure the site is updated to the latest version of phpbb, however. I think a contest would be a fantastic idea, on the basis of making a completely custom looking "style" for the forums that is fully compliant with the current html and .css spec. (making sure depreciated tags are not used in the source code etc). The great thing about phpbb is that anyone can download the source code and mess with it as they please. Hosting contest entries may be a slight barrier, but nothing that a collective community if web devs couldn't figure out. I am actually excited about a potential WHATWG forum contest. Although I may not be the best, the idea of playing around with new html standards for somthing practical sounds very fun.

[Xdega]

Just a semi off topic thought. Whatwg needs a new logo. This could maybe be lumped in to the forum style contest, or as an independent contest. I personally love playing around with logo design, may see what I can throw together just for funsies

[benschwarz]

Hi all,

I think there is nothing wrong with improving the message board, in fact, I think for the WHATWG to be taken seriously, by a wide community… changes need to happen.

Having said that, I had no idea that the forum even existed until Xdega dropped me a line on email. Is a traditional forum the best way to handle the kind of content that is posted on here? Is there another medium that could be employed?

--

Like all things in web standards space, a project of this really needs to be lead by a dictator—that is, someone should take design lead, or call the shots, or nothing will happen.

If I can be of service to help guide the process, I'd love to—however I won't have the time to be able to actually do the work

[zcorpan]

I don't really have time to do the work either; maybe Hixie should hand over control to Xdega instead of to me. Xdega, I suggest you send an email to ian@hixie.ch and cc me zcorpan@gmail.com and ask if he can give you access to change the forums.

[Xdega]

Sounds great. I will be sure to send an e-mail.

Basically. As I mentioned. I am not the most experienced, but very full of ideas. I am heading to college this fall to begin my bachelors in Computer Science (at the ripe age of 25). I have been spending most evenings studying web development based topics and this could be a great project to further advance my knowledge.

I have been playing around with a lot of CSS3 and HTML5 lately and the thought of what could be accomplished in terms of customizing a bulletin board system is pretty intense. Features such as web fonts and transitions could really be a nice touch, and the best part is they degrade gracefully by nature.

Unfortunately my level of JavaScript is horrible at the moment, which is a major hold back.

I have my own development hosting that I could set up an installation of PHPBB4 on and check it out.

The fun challenge would be completely changing the look of these forums, so visitors don't even know they are phpbb. Creating a new forum system from scratch is a whole new ball game, and I would say more people with more time would be required to make it work. I am going to be learning Symfony2 PHP framework here soon though, so maybe down the line that custom idea could be explored.

A couple of other ideas:

- Press / to focus the quick reply txt box, and enter to submit message (kinda like the search box on developers.whatwg.org. This could allow for rapid sharing of ideas on the forums.

-Integration of the mailing list, with the Forums. This to me is a no brainier. The forums have their advantages (more accessible to some), as does the mailing list. But instead of fragmenting the ideas on two separate mediums, combine them. Even if it is just a simple feed that is imported to a specified section of the forums.

Also, promoting the forums (and whatwg for that matter) is key. The flow of ideas that these forums could hold with enough community members could potentially be incredible. And with more active contributers, comes the ability for extensive clever enhancements to the website/forums/etc.

sry abt the long post.
Xdega.

[freeTinker]

...a project of this really needs to be lead by a dictator...

Huh? what we are going to have a Muammar Gaddafi forum???

Perhaps the first item in the specification could be, that all development is hosted independently by those wishing to partake, but that a zip file and full import and export be available should a design be declared... The Winner!

Surely all that is required is a link for members to go look as things progress etc. Just a thought...

[Xdega]

I think there needs to be more interest. I shall create a section on these forums later for the specific sharing of website ideas.

Anyone who has ideas in terms of improving the community forums can then submit a suggestion, and discuss it. I feel the community at this point is simply to small to have a diverse "contest" of sorts.

I am also going to be watching the development of PHPBB4 as I believe they are planning on taking the software to the next generation (using Symfony2 framework and Doctrine). It is in very early stages at this point though, so we will most likely be wanting to upgrade to PHPBB3 here shortly.

also, agreed:

...a project of this really needs to be lead by a dictator...

I shall be that dictator
j/k

[freeTinker]

...I feel the community at this point is simply to small to have a diverse "contest" of sorts...

You are correct, from the number of posts here it seems that this community is indeed too small, in itself, to draw entry into a contest of sorts, but perhaps that ain't the point Mein Führer...

What is the point of this board? what is it's purpose?

Let me say that I am a lowly hack, and potentially a net beneficiary rather than net contributor of activity here--- and hopefully that's ok. From my point of view I am looking for activity, I want to read and learn- and throw my cents and questions in when appropriate, so what is lacking?

Not a fancy board or forum, although I agree 100% that something slick and simple would be real cool. What is lacking is people. Could the point about a competition not be that it be used to generate membership?

Would a well-crafted competition not be the perfect vehicle to attract just the "right sort" to this forum? what is the right sort? who is interested in HTML as a living breathing standard? who is interested in standards? what are the benefits?

What about a depository of templates, we could all contribute and this also could be used to attract membership. What about a facility to comment and provide feedback about sites we all publish? (perhaps and extra level of protection for this)

I know these seem like suggestions, but they are not... I am simply throwing ideas out there first. I dunno your thoughts on competitions in general but what about a simple CSS type thing like the zen garden?! - just to get started? - blog about it it, post about it, throw up a few well-seo'ed' pages and attract entries and potentially active members

From what I see there are only a handful of contributors, a few new folks trickle in and then trickle out, only coz of lack of activity. What new levels of activity do you see coming?

[Xdega]

Basically you are right, it's people sharing ideas that make up a community. Newer, cleaner software is merely a vehicle.

But I think the main point here is that using old standards to promote new standards is very paradoxical.

I shall be working on moving these forums over to PHPBB3.0 which has been confirmed to be using a lot better semantic markup and much less use of tabular layout. There is also an effort in place to modernize the markup for PHPBB 3.2 which I will be looking more in to.

I also like your ideas presented for contests. Certainly a good way to get people interested in using new html standards and as a result discussing potential improvements to the spec.

I created a new forums for sharing ideas:
http://forums.whatwg.org/viewforum.php?f=5
That section is where the contests should be held
I am going to go ahead and lock this topic.

ps: Feel free to start your own contest if you like.